Other than a Tesla

I like my Tesla Model Y and I often recommend them to a lot of people. But today I want to talk about a few other brands and vehicles I think are also worth considering.

Hyundai and Kia - Each of these brands have a handful of EVs with some really great features- specifically, good value and great charging performance. The E-GMP platform is shared by both of them so you can choose between two different interior and exterior styles while staying with a great vehicle platform. I believe these are worth alternatives to Tesla with some trade-offs. The Kia EV9 and Hyundai Ionic 9 are each real 3-row crossover SUVs, seating 6/7 passengers, at a more affordable price than a Rivian R1S or the Tesla Model X. The Kia EV6 and Hyundia Ionic 5 are 5 passenger, hatchback style cars that might be considered comparable to a Tesla Model Y. And then there is the Hyundai Ionic 6 that is a sedan type of 5 passenger car that is comparable to a Tesla Model 3. Some of the pros of Kia and Hyundai vehicles is that their charging curve holds higher power input for a greater amount of the battery charging time, so they charge more power in a shorter amount of time on some Level 3 chargers. Some of these vehicles are also pretty good, if not better, than a Tesla on efficiency. Some of the cons are the technology and navigation systems are generally regarded as inferior to Tesla. I think these cars are good to consider for a lease and for buying new, but I don’t have much data regarding long term reliability which is particularly important for getting one used. Anyways, have a look at them and see what you think.

Nissan Leaf- For a barebones, A to B transportation, at lowest cost, its hard to beat a Nissan Leaf. They aren’t sexy or cool but they are the ‘cockroach of EVs’ as Kyle from Out Of Spec likes to put it. The Leaf was basically the original full electric vehicle that was mass produced and significantly used across the US. The leaf went on sale starting in 2010 and still sold today, mostly the same with some updates. The reason Kyle calls the cockroaches is because statistically they are very reliable and just keep on going year after year. They are not fragile they way other EVs can be. One of the biggest downsides to them is charging. The battery packs are smaller and they don’t really have fast charging abilities and what little they do have can make battery thermal problems. Leafs are regarded to be good in-town only EVs where you charge them at home and the just plain go. They are so bad at road tripping that they literally don’t come with route planning navigation software from Nissan. So, great price, does A to B transportation in town effectively, but lacking features most modern EVs have. Its a compromise but a tight budget or right use case these can be great. I have a friend who has one and its so good for such a low price. These can be picked up used for as low as $5,000 and still be great commuter cars.

Chevy Bolt- Similar to a Nissan Leaf but better in ways, the Chevy Bolt can be an excellent EV. Again, it’s simple and doesn’t have a lot of the frills of modern EVs. But, these are very affordable and they have exceptional range and decent charging all things considered. They can be excellent in-town but also can do road trips occasionally making them good all around vehicles for the budget conscious, practical guy. These are no longer produced so you will have to buy it used but for a good price these can be awesome. Chevy did have a scary recall on them but one that was fixed or came after the recall correction would be on my short list. I was really tempted to get one before they sold out of new ones over a year ago. There are videos where the Bolt out performed a Tesla Model 3, and two other “better” vehicles. I don’t know about long term reliability, that’s some research to look into. Maybe, no news is good news?

ID Buzz- I know of only one mini-van type of EV for sale right now and that is the new VW ID Buzz. I like the look of them and the romanticized idea in my head about cruising in one, but the specs and reviews I am seeing aren’t very good for road trips or for price / value. But if you just want a minivan type of EV, or love teh VW retro microbus look, this is your one and only option. While the charging and range stats are subpar, if its mostly a in-town commuter, it won’t really matter and you may love it.

So, there you go. Some thoughts on a few other EVs. I will add some more in the future.

Cheers!

Dustin

Truck Guy Unexpectedly Buys EV

I watched a really good video today from a guy, Rob Ogle, that planned to get a new truck but looked into EVs and ended up getting one instead of a truck. I really appreciated what he has to say on here and how he came to the decision he did. Rob seems to be like-minded with EV Skeptic and encourages us all to challenge our preconceptions. I related to the anxiety he had and his the imposter syndrome discussion.

It’s so interesting to me just how many of us struggle with the decision to go with an EV, even when the data shows it will be a good choice. The apprehension runs deep. I quizzed 5 of my EV friends last night about if anyone wishes they made a different choice and none of them did. In fact, most of us wanted a second EV and try to invent reasons to get another one. I will say though that we were all informed buyers and received one-on-one advice from EV owners and picked vehicles that are well suited to our use cases.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3dVw_vvE2s

Give it a watch. It’s worth the time.

Big Savings with a Tesla Referral Code

In case you didn’t know, using a Tesla referral code when purchasing one can save you hundreds or thousands of dollars, depending on the deal going on at the time of purchase. Right now as I write this on 12/11/24, the deal is that a buyer can get up to $2,000 off the purchase price. Wow! That’s awesome! As a side bonus, the person whose referral code you use also gets a bonus, no charge to you. It’s Tesla’s way of generating more sales and rewarding their current owners.

According to Tesla’s website today, the following products are available for purchase with a referral link:

• Model S

• Model 3

• Model X

• Model Y

• Cybertruck

• Solar panels

To my knowledge, Tesla doesn’t advertise on traditional media so they have some marketing budget to share with us. I think it makes a lot of sense because word of mouth referrals to Tesla are probably more powerful and useful to everyone than mass marketing. I know I bought mine after a lot of discussion with my Tesla owning friends and it was nice the both me and one of them got a kickback bonus for our time and efforts invested. I was able to get $1,000 off my car purchase price. It gets applied inside the Tesla app or website when you go to place an order and I believe the exact amount depends on the deal going on as well as the exact Tesla vehicle you are looking to get. For example, a Cybertruck may have a higher discount than a Model 3 or Y. But its definitely worth a try.

If you are looking for a Tesla Referral Code, here is mine as of today: https://ts.la/dustin218775

Here is a link to Tesla’s website for the Refer and Earn program if you want to learn more from them.

Cheers!

Dustin Gehrett

Should I get an EV? Decision Flow Chart

I was talking to a friendly grandpa the other evening at my kids’ birthday party and the two of us ended up talking about road trips and our vehicles. He happened to be visiting from out-of-town and was in the middle of his road trip. I was reminded of a recent road trip in my EV and how it went much better than I had thought it would, so I told him about it. We discussed EVs and ICE pros and cons in general for a bit and he ended up saying he didn’t think an EV was for him and the conversation moved on to other things. A while later, the conversation had turned to where he lives and that his power goes out one or two times most years during sever storms . And then, a bit out of nowhere, he said, “Maybe I would think about getting a (Tesla) Cybertruck after all. I have heard I could plug it into my house when the power goes out instead of using my generator.” And just like that, we were back to talking EVs again, but this time he was genuinely curious if it would actually work out for him- personally, not hypothetically for everyone in general. It became a real, personal possibility to be considered but there were some many things he wasn’t sure about and plenty more things he didn’t even know to think about. We talked for the rest of the birthday party (it made that time fly, for once) and was a lot of fun for me and very helpful to him.

Afterward, I was reflecting on the conversation and I realized I forgot to mention an important decision factor that he may not know about. That’s frustrating, right? And then, I thought of how nice it would be if I had my EV decision process written down, like an logic flow chart. I could refer to it myself during discussions as well as share it with anyone thinking about it themselves. Well, today, my inner EV nerd was compelled to finally create the it, so here it is.

We think this decision flow chart will help anyone think through the big ticket items and reveal if they should keep thinking about it or not and why they think so. Click on this link to view it on our Shared Info page:

Should I get an EV? Decision Flow Chart & Notes

Let me know what you all think of this. Is there anything you think should be changed on the flow chart?

Cheers!

Dustin Gehrett

12/10/2024

“I think you might be making a mistake”

“Dustin, you didn’t even want a Tesla! I remember you saying you would never have one, that they were terrible and will break, the batteries will fail and cost a fortune to replace making the cars be scrap prematurely, and they just don’t make sense! I always wanted one and you didn’t. But now you got one and I don’t!” my buddy said, gently ribbing me. It was said in good faith and I knew this time would come. Now was the time, and, all that was true. “Well, ….” I began to eat crow as explained my journey as an EV Skeptic up to that point.

The days, weeks and months following my EV purchase, were… strange. I was excited for sure with a lot of really good times, but I also went through waves of frustration, curiosity, worry and even embarrassment. You see, I regard myself as an analytical and smart person that makes decisions largely on evidence, math, statistics and the things like that. I spend a lot of time thinking about how myself and others should live life in an ideal world, spend money, make decisions and the related probabilities and likely outcomes of such decisions. I want us all to get as close to the American Dream as possible via good decisions. I believe I have a good understanding of how cars fit into normal suburban life in Western Colorado. And, as a result of that, I had long ago concluded that EV’s weren’t for me and wouldn’t be good for most people. I was an EV Skeptic. I was skeptical that they would live up to all the promises and hype and I had seen the evidence already confirming I had good reason to be skeptical. When the Tesla Model S came out and in following years, I read the stories about long charge times, problems with drive motors going out, people damaging batteries and getting insanely high repair bills when not covered under warranty. I knew the Nissan Leaf had problem with batteries related to thermal issues. I heard people complain about road tripping issues. I knew those cars were over-priced crap. Case closed.

In 2023, my daily driver was a 2009 Nissan Sentra but I had wanted a new car for years. But when the old one just kept on going fine, I refused to get a new one when it wasn’t ‘needed’, being true to my frugal core and ‘the math’. I also refused to pay the crazy inflated car prices of the post-Covid market during 2021-2022. Sometime in Oct of 2023, my Sentra had been totaled (not my fault!) and I was considering what cars to replace it with, and running out of patience. I was fairly settled on getting a brand-new Nissan Sentra since my old one treated me very well, was reliable, had minimal maintenance expense for 146,000 miles and a new one of those would do the job of daily driving around my town very well. And, it would be new and fancy and finally I would have blue tooth audio for my music!

When I told a friend about my plan to get another Sentra, he said, '“I know you’re not gonna want to hear this, but I really think you should consider getting a Tesla.” Well, I just so happened to a have a spreadsheet I had built to calculate how much vehicles cost per mile and over the lifespan of 200,000 miles I believe they should run for. It’s helpful for comparing all the variables to make apples-to-apples comparison easier. I’ll skip the details but I started by entering the data on a Tesla Model 3, the cheapest one with standard range and rear wheel drive and the most comparable to the Sentra. The timing of all this happened to be shortly after Elon Musk and Tesla started cutting their prices and starting the price war. It sucked for the people who already bought at much higher prices but I would be happy to accept my patience finally paying off. To my surprise, after adding in the federal tax credit of $7,500 and the Colorado tax credit of $5,000, I could have the Model 3 for about the same price as a Nissan Sentra. Wow, that was a surprise. I was expecting it to be “unaffordable”, around $20,000 more than the Sentra the way the math had been in past years- but it wasn’t. Uh oh. I also knew that the same friend already owned 2 different Tesla’s and he was very happy with them and not having any issues with EVs and I trust him about such things as cars. I needed to re-evaluate my assumptions. What may or may not have been true years ago, no longer was, so I better re-evaluate my conclusions that were based on those assumptions.

When I woke up on November 4, 2023, I had no idea how this day would change a significant part of my life trajectory from the path I had been on before. I woke up and casually checked Tesla’s website of in-inventory vehicles and to my surprise I found one that was exactly what I wanted, for a price I was very happy with, a few thousand dollars less than if I ordered one. I called my buddy who confirmed this car was what I was looking for and then did the online order expecting to go a week later to pick it up. It turned out I could pick up the car the same day, if I was willing to drive the 5 hours to the dealer and could get there before they closed and then drive the 5 hours back at night. Welp, you bet, I sure did want to do that. My Tesla buddy went and charged his car and then we set off. I was excited! His 2015 Model S was taking us to get my Model Y. Good times!

On the drive, I called my Dad to tell him what I was doing, thinking he would be happy for me and think it’s a fun thing. He knew I had been patient waiting to get a new car. Now was my time, my reward. Instead, he basically thought I might be making a mistake and cautioned me to not do it. He wasn’t rude or mean, just cautious and a good Dad, but it still took the wind out of my sails. I was now second guessing myself, and worried. What if ‘old-me’ and my Dad were right and this becomes a disaster as I previously believed? I don’t know, it was too late. I was committed and just had to see it through- come what may. This was when the weirdness began. I was driving to buy a new car, an exciting time for anyone, but I was also having pre-buyers remorse and wanting to back out. I don’t know if its normal but it wasn’t how I envisioned it going down.

I picked up my 2023 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD in Loveland, CO and immediately covered the front in painters tape, for paint protection, while doing my first supercharging session. Then, we set out for the 5 hour drive home, first on the surface streets and then merging onto I-25 heading toward Denver. Traffic was thick but still moving at or above the 75 mph speed limit. I was watching all the traffic but also needing to get things adjusted to me and learning how to use the center screen instead of the gauge cluster I was accustomed to being in front of the steering wheel. It was all new to me. Different. Weird. The car somehow told me it needed to calibrate the cameras or something like that. What does that mean? How do I do that? How long does this take? Well, it finally finished and I settled in and just got in the groove of driving the car and realized my friend had gotten a ways up ahead of me so I needed to catch up. I signaled, then started my lane change while gingerly pressing the accelerator pedal, and the car shot off, sinking me back in my seat, gaining 15 mph in a fraction of a second, without effort. First, I was surprised, then a child-like, joyful and exuberant smile took over my face. That felt awesome! This car is sick! I was hooked. The rest of the drive was fun and interesting. I got to test out Full Self Driving and was amazed that the car did a 75% good job of driving itself for about 30 minutes. Wow! There were issues but if Tesla was going to keep improving this, I could see real potential in this self-driving or assisted-driving technology- and I am here for it! We got home safely in the late hours of the night and headed to bed, the worry had been drowned out by the joy of the driving experience.

Going back to the beginning of this story and how the days, weeks, and months following the purchase was weird, I had done a lot of research over the last few weeks. I re-evaluated the things I thought were true, basically that EVs are terrible, and concluded that some of those things were correct at one point in time or for one model of EV but that wasn’t representative of all EV models or our current point in time. EV technology had come a long way since the 2012 Tesla Model S. Tesla learned lessons and improved and so did all the EV manufacturers. The charging network learned lessons and fixed them as well as rolling out tons more charging stations. And the EV community learned more about the limitations and good use cases for EVs. Were there still problems and things that need to get sorted out in the long run, of course. But, it was not accurate or useful for me to continue making decisions based on outdated evidence that has been fixed. The other big re-evaluation was related to false evidence that never was true. Specifically, my worries about EV battery failures were over blown, statistically speaking, when applied to current model year cars from manufacturers that have been doing it for many years. Mixing up driver caused damage to batteries with manufactured battery failures is not accurate. Any vehicle can have massive and expensive damage caused by bad drivers- that isn’t an indictment on all ICE vehicles quality, and it isn’t for EVs either.

So, I sorted myself out in the weeks leading up to my EV purchase which allowed me to feel good and go forward with the purchase but that didn’t mean all my friends and family came to the same conclusions in that same time. They were all still thinking many of the things I used to, and many of them, in part, because I told them or confirmed their same false and outdated conclusions. My Dad did intend to rain on my parade; he was just concerned that according to his model of the world, the same one I had not long ago, getting an EV could be a problem. It took a long while to go through the process of informing people about my purchase and then telling them why I changed my mind. I never had a negative interaction about it, it was more just the process of everyone learing and updating their models, a process that can be uncomfortable to question beliefs and evidence. It can be unsettling to question ones self. If I were wrong about something, what else might I be wrong about now and not know it yet? Now, a year later, most of my circle of people may not fully agree with me and are waiting to see if it all goes well but they have heard my story, evidence and logic once or twice so it’s fairly routine now. The weirdness is gone and now EV conversations are matter-of-fact and curiosity based and very pleasant and enjoyable. I look forward to them because I am comfortable with my decision and its fun to talk through the nuances of all vehicle choices. So many things are not right or wrong but merely trade offs and pros and cons and unique to each individual and circumstance.

The take way I have for you is this, whatever you believe about EVs now, be open to true study, research and evidence that confirms and/or contradicts your model of the world. Be open to people who are presenting information to you or challenging you in good faith. I think most of us can agree that there is always more that we can learn, things that we are wrong about innocently, and that the world is always changing for better, worse or just different. Update your model and beliefs as the data changes. On EVs specifically, I think there are cases where they are superior to an ICE vehicle and situations where they are inferior. Its up to each person to assess and decide the particulars about it and I hope EV Skeptic will be a helpful source for information to assist you in your journey.

If anyone wishes to discuss this topic or anything else regarding EVs, please reach out using the contact form here on EV Skeptic.

Cheers!

Dustin Gehrett

12/9/2024